12 comments on “The Organizer in Chief

  1. I am against abortion. Before my daughter was born with severe malformities 10 years ago (we knew it before she was born) the genetics counselor at the hospital said abortion was the best option. Of course, we did not do it.
    I have seen a study where abortions were actually at their lowest levels in decades during the Clinton administration. And we all know he was a “liberal” as you call it. I am not convinced passing a law to outlaw abortion will reduce the number at all. But I do think there will be many abortions done by people not even qualified. Murder is illegal but it has not stopped people from murdering. In fact, the states with the death penalty have the highest murder rates (southern states mostly) with 5.3 murders per 100k people. States with no death penalty like Iowa, for example, 1.4 murders per 100k. So the penalty for murder certainly is not doing much good, if any.
    I think passing a law outlawing abortion will do little if anything to stem the tide.
    Overwhelmingly, poor women (to a rate of 4 to 1) are much more likely to choose abortion than the middle class or wealthy. I am all for making abortion less of an option by helping with health care, and making adoption much more affordable etc. These are things I see the President pushing for. There is more, but these are the two I can think of.
    Will Roe ever be overturned? Not likely. But in the mean time lets work to make abortion rare and less of an option than say, adoption.

    You missed the point. Saying you are against murder and then making funds availble to have even more murders is what we are talking about here. I am making the point that our President is NOT for fewer abortions, he is for more and proved it.

  2. I do not believe it is that cut and dried. This is a complex issue for sure. Such is the nature of this truly explosive issue.

    Mr Obama did what he did and on the 2nd day of his administration. My tax dollars and yours is making abortions possible that would not happen otherwise, and on foreign soil. If you are happy with this state of affairs ok, I’m not.

  3. I see abortion no different than when people killed babies sacrificing them to idols. Many times these babies were killed as a sacrifice that was suppose to bring them gain in their lives eerily similar to why many people have abortions to make their own lives more convenient to have more gain.

  4. I’m just glad my faith doesn’t rest on who is in the White House. I have dual citizenship – one here in America, the other in the only kingdom that will last, the only kingdom that cannot be shaken – the Kingdom of God.

    It saddens and worries me that most Christians don’t see anything wrong with torture – waterboarding included. Just as bad – as you pointed out, Royce – is the cold, disconnected way which all of us can applaud the murder of hundreds by pilotless drones, as if it’s just another video game. Most answers to my position on this would probably seek to justify these actions based on the so-called ‘results’ they achieve. Strange, but I thought most conservatives decried ‘situational ethics.’

    Keep provoking thoughts, Royce. Whether or not we agree on every point, it’s still iron sharpening iron.

    Brad, I’m sure all of us grapple with these sorts of issues if we are responsible. If one man’s faith conclusions arrive at going to war as a good citizen and another concludes that he should be a pacifist I commend them both. What I do expect is consistency, both in practice and theory as much as is possible.

    If we take an honest look at warfare in the Bible we must at a minimum give consideration to the position of agressive offense. It cannot be denied that at times God was with the warriors.

    I hate war and that anyone must die due to violence but in a sin cursed world the utopian dream of perfect peace is that, a dream. Only when the Prince of peace comes will there be perfect peace.

    Is it ethical and or moral to cause fear/pain to one individual to perhaps save the lives of many? I think the principal of the greater good must be at least considered. I once struggled with a missionary I loved and admired smuggling bibles into iron curtain countries because he was breaking the law. It was unlawful to preach Christ and the resurrection and still is today in some countries but it must be done.

    So, there is always an abiding tension between theory and what happens out in the real world where the rubber meets the road huh.

    I know you enjoyed John and Maggie this week. They are great folks and I’m sure you are too.

    Royce

  5. Could funding abortions in other countries be seen as a big foreign policy issue? If we paid money to have citizens of another country killed by the thousands, don’t you think that would be a scandal? Yet, it is already happening and people think it is marvelous and a big plus for women’s rights. What about the millions of baby girls who get killed each year and will never have the life or liberty to know what “women’s rights” are?

  6. Abortion is political gain. Politicians who are for abortion know by supporting abortions they win people in different ways. Some young women see abortion as a plus and some young men see abortion as a plus, sometimes the woman decides to have an abortion when the man doesn’t want her to and sometimes the man forces the woman to have an abortion when she doesn’t want to. Some parents see abortion as a plus in case their daughter gets pregnant or their son gets a girl pregnant. Thing is no one in these situations are thinking much about giving the child that is being killed a chance to live a chance to make a difference, it’s more about their own lives and their own gain.

    Obama said in his campaign he wanted to get people on the Supreme Court who are for abortions who would approve more abortion cases.

    While I agree with most of what you say, I must point out that the last sentence is incorrect. Obama didn’t “say” he wanted that kind of judge. I do agree there is little doubt in anyone’s mind that is the kind of judge he wants.

    Royce

  7. Thanks for your kind response, Royce. We did enjoyed having John and Maggie; they are definitely a blessing, and we enjoyed them a great deal. Hated to see them go, but I know they’re doing a great work there in Monroe.

    I hear you on consistency, but their inconsistency doesn’t change what I feel is right or wrong. I don’t necessarily consider myself a pacifist, although I, like you, commend those who feel like they should be. My beef is not with war; I just don’t consider torture to be in any way consistent with what God would approve of as “war.” I may be unaware, but I don’t know of anywhere in scripture where God told the Israelites to torture their enemies (Although killing every man, woman and child of some of their enemies is a little disturbing, even though God commanded it – but He knows alot more than I do about that decision, and I’m not about to play Job and question Him on it).

    Just because peace may or may not be achievable here, that doesn’t mean we should just give up and not try (I know that’s not what you meant, but some could use your statement about unachievable peace until Christ returns to justify that position).

    You said,”Is it ethical and or moral to cause fear/pain to one individual to perhaps save the lives of many?” It’s the ‘perhaps’ that gives me pause, Royce. I do consider the principle of the greater good here, and that makes me pause as well.

    To be honest, your struggle with your missionary friend wouldn’t be much of a struggle to me, but I’ve never been in the position to have to decide. Acts 4:19,20 comes to mind in that (theoretical, for me) situation.

    I’m in full agreement with you on the difference in ‘theory’ and ‘practice.’ I know that I can sit here comfortably at my computer and ponder these thoughts with you, while someone else who doesn’t have this leisure fights for my right to do so. I’ve never fought for my country, never placed my life in danger to defend it. I’ve never been on the front line and had to make a split second decision like that about what to do. I appreciate so much the men and women who do.

    Royce, you can’t know how much I enjoy these types of discussions. They help me sharpen the only weapon I do wield (this dull mind of mine). Keep up the good work, brother.

    I appreciate discussionss like your and mine too. You are obviously a thinker, a brother, and a gentleman. Now that is a combo hard to beat!

    I would never hold your association with Dobbs against you. LOL

    Royce

  8. I must have misunderstood Obama in one of his interviews when he was asked who he would like to see on the Supreme Court since he gets to decide during his term on who will go before Congress for a spot on the Supreme Court. We’ll see who he decides to send.

    He has already chosen her. Now we will see if the Senate confirms his choice. I sure hope they don’t.

    Royce

  9. Sonia Sotomayor and Abortion Rights
    Posted by KATHY KATTENBURG in Society on May 27th, 2009 | Comments |

    Amid all the coverage of Pres. Obama’s nomination of Sonia Sotomayor to replace David Souter on the Supreme Court, not a whole lot of attention has been given to her views on Roe v. Wade. Charlie Savage has an article about this subject in the New York Times:

    In nearly 11 years as a federal appeals court judge, President Obama’s choice for the Supreme Court, Sonia Sotomayor, has never directly ruled on whether the Constitution protects a woman’s right to an abortion. But when she has written opinions that touched tangentially on abortion disputes, she has reached outcomes in some cases that were favorable to abortion opponents.
    [...]
    Because Judge Sotomayor is the choice of a president who supports abortion rights at a time when Democrats hold a substantial majority in the Senate, both sides in the debate have tended to assume she could be counted on to preserve the Roe decision.

    Immediately after Mr. Obama announced his selection on Tuesday, leaders of several other abortion rights groups spoke out in support of Judge Sotomayor, and several conservative groups opposed to abortion rights attacked her, saying they were convinced that the president would not nominate someone who opposed abortion rights.

    But in his briefing to reporters on Tuesday, the White House spokesman, Robert Gibbs, was asked whether Mr. Obama had asked Judge Sotomayor about abortion or privacy rights. Mr. Gibbs replied that Mr. Obama “did not ask that specifically.”
    [...]
    None of the cases in Judge Sotomayor’s record dealt directly with the legal theory underlying Roe v. Wade — that the Constitution contains an unwritten right to privacy in reproductive decisions as a matter of so-called substantive due process. Several of her opinions invoke substantive due process in other areas, however, like the rights of parents and prisoners.

    She has also had several cases involving abortion-related disputes that turned on other legal issues. While those cases cannot be taken as a proxy for her views on the constitutionality of abortion, she often reached results favorable to abortion opponents.

    In a 2002 case, she wrote an opinion upholding the Bush administration policy of withholding aid from international groups that provide or promote abortion services overseas.

    “The Supreme Court has made clear that the government is free to favor the anti-abortion position over the pro-choice position,” she wrote, “and can do so with public funds.”

    In a 2004 case, she largely sided with some anti-abortion protesters who wanted to sue some police officers for allegedly violating their constitutional rights by using excessive force to break up demonstrations at an abortion clinic. Judge Sotomayor said the protesters deserved a day in court.

    Judge Sotomayor has also ruled on several immigration cases involving people fighting deportation orders to China on the grounds that its population-control policy of forcible abortions and birth control constituted persecution.

    In a 2007 case, she strongly criticized colleagues on the court who said that only women, and not their husbands, could seek asylum based on China’s abortion policy. “The termination of a wanted pregnancy under a coercive population control program can only be devastating to any couple, akin, no doubt, to the killing of a child,” she wrote, also taking note of “the unique biological nature of pregnancy and special reverence every civilization has accorded to child-rearing and parenthood in marriage.”

    Of course, pro-choice does mean pro-choice, and China’s forced abortion policy does not give women any choice, so Judge Sotomayor’s rulings in the above cases are not conclusive about her views on abortion. It’s also possible that, even if she disagrees with the legal theory behind Roe v. Wade, she respects the authority of precedent even more. But it’s definitely something she should be asked about at her confirmation hearing.

    The links in the above quote from Savage’s piece go directly to the pdf of each case, so if you’ve a mind to, you can read them.

    http://themoderatevoice.com/33432/sonia-sotomayor-and-abortion-rights/

    This judge should be denied a seat on the Supreme Court because of her whacky views on the nature of the U.S. Constitution and that she believes her gender and ethinicity make her more qualified than a white man. Is this not racist? She also has stated that she has no problem with appealing to cases in foreign countries for precident. What a farce!

    A Supreme Court justice swears to uphold the U.S. Consitition and to rule based upon it alone. I hope sanity prevails…

    Royce

  10. I agree with you Royce. I believe our President Obama has things up his sleeve and not good things and people have no idea what what we are in for.

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