Comments on: What is Saving Faith?

By: laymond

laymond — Thu, 12 Mar 2009 18:21:39 +0000

Royce, I can’t name one single thing that I have done that qualifies me for such a reward. not one.
But as your favorite verse says, “And without faith it is impossible to please him, for whoever would draw near to God must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who seek him.”
(Hebrews 11:6)
I do believe that God exists, and seek in my meager way to draw closer to him, through his Son Jesus Christ, and I believe and trust that Christ will do what he said. Because I do believe in God the Father, and trust in Christ the Son. I try in my meager inept way to do what they ask. and I know I fail miserably. but it is all I have to offer. I am not like many who say when asked do you know you are going to heaven, and they answer yes. My answer is no, but Jesus does, that is his decision, my job is to do the best I can to follow him, stumbling and falling all the way.

I don’t know why anyone would want to stay here, if they knew they were going to be with Jesus. I have that “saving faith” in Jesus, but I’m not much to brag on.

Laymond,

God makes it clear that you can know for sure.

“If we receive the testimony of men, the testimony of God is greater, for this is the testimony of God that he has borne concerning his Son.Whoever believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself. Whoever does not believe God has made him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has borne concerning his Son. And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life.

I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life. (1 John 5:9-13)

It is too plain to easily miss. If you have the Son you have eternal life because Jesus himself is the Life. And here God tells us how to get the Son too. It is my sincere hope that you find the peace of knowing you are safe in Christ.

Royce

By: laymond

laymond — Thu, 12 Mar 2009 15:24:02 +0000

Royce, I have read this chapter many times, looking for the explanation of the parable contained in vs 44, 45, 46. it seems to be the only one which Jesus did not see fit to explain.
No I do not believe he was referring to himself as “a man” or a “merchant” I do believe he was saying when a sinner truly finds the treasure which he seeks , “The Kingdom” he will / should give up all else to keep that treasure.

Since you hold that view, let me ask, what have you paid for that treasure? Good works?

The only payment made for my salvation was the blood of Jesus.

Royce

By: laymond

laymond — Thu, 12 Mar 2009 13:38:39 +0000

Royce said; ” In Matthew 13:45 the merchant man is God, not a sinner who is searching.”

I still can’t believe it but he did! I am beginning to see just why Royce and I see things so differently. It is how we perceive what the bible says. I say the merchant refers to man , he said no it refers to God. maybe we need a third Christian to step in here, this is the verse in question.
45: Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a merchant man, seeking goodly pearls:

In order to put vs 45 into context here we need to go to vs 44 to set up just what 45 is saying.

44: Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto treasure hid in a field; the which when a man hath found, he hideth, and for joy thereof goeth and selleth all that he hath, and buyeth that field.

After reading 44, what do you think the reference “merchant” was referring to in 45.?
I say the “Kingdom of Heaven ” is being compared to “hidden Treasure” and “goodly pearls” and there is no need for God to seek either, they belong to him already.
The “Kingdom” is a precious thing, and all men should seek it.

Laymond,

We do see things very differently. I did not write the following but agree with it.
These two parables are somewhat similar. There is a man and a treasure, and after he finds it, he goes and sells everything he has and buys the treasure. These two parables are universally thought to be positive parables, unlike the first four.

We have already interpreted two of the symbols found in verse 44—”the field” and “the man.” We find in verse 37 that the one who sows good seed is “the son of man.” Wherever the term “man” shows up in these parables, it tends to mean “Christ.” The “Son of Man” is obviously Christ, and “man” in these two parables is also Christ. In verse 38, Jesus says the field is “the world.” In these parables, “treasure” is found in the world, and a “man,” Christ, is doing something with it.

How is “treasure” used in Scripture? Obviously, the literal meaning of “treasure” is what first comes to mind: Jewels, gold, silver, other precious metals, art, and fine clothing would be considered “treasure.” But this is a parable, and a parable is metaphorical. The symbol must mean something other than just a jewel, a chest full of coins, or a collection of fine art. How is “treasure” used metaphorically in the Bible?

In Exodus 19:5, God says that if Israel “will indeed obey My voice and keep My covenant, then you shall be a special treasure to Me above all people.” Psalm 135:4 says, “The LORD has chosen Jacob for Himself, Israel for His special treasure.” Notice also Malachi 3:16-17:

Then those who feared the LORD spoke to one another, and the LORD listened and heard them; so a book of remembrance was written before Him for those who fear the LORD and who meditate on His name. “They shall be Mine,” says the LORD of hosts, “on the day that I make them My jewels.”

The margin on “My jewels” is literally “special treasure.”

We see the same thing in the New Testament. I Peter 2:9-10 says:

But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, His own special people, that you may proclaim the praises of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light; who once were not a people but are now the people of God, who had not obtained mercy but now have obtained mercy.

Notice the progression of identity here. First, this “special treasure” was Israel, the one God made a covenant with on Mount Sinai. In the Psalms, He calls His “special treasure” specifically “Israel” and “Jacob.” In Malachi, God describes His “special treasure” as “those who fear His name” and “those who speak one to another” about His way. In I Peter 2 it is the elect are His “special people.” It has gone from “Israel,” to a little bit more general—”those who fear His name”—to specific again—”His special people, a holy nation.”

In Matthew 13, the “treasure” is the church, which fits all of these descriptions. It is spiritual Israel, “the Israel of God” (Galatians 6:16). The church is composed of those among all the people of the earth who truly fear His name. And because God called us out of the world separately and individually, the church is now a people who were not a people.

By: laymond

laymond — Thu, 12 Mar 2009 12:27:22 +0000

Royce said, ” If a man is saved God saved him. It is just that plain.”
And I could not agree more, with that statement.
That is the very reason man seeks God, if man could save himself he wouldn’t need God, but he can’t. But we do need to seek Jesus in order for him to recognize us before God. We have to want to be saved, accepted into the kingdom. God does not go seek one man over another, nor does he deny a man for no reason. Let’s take the parable of the wayward son, no the father did not go out and search for his son, but he longed for him, the son had to return to the father. If the son had not returned, he would have been lost, to his father. Royce God offered a gift, but it will do no good if we don’t first accept it. A closer relationship with God has to be initiated by man. No matter how we say it a covenant has two parties involved, it is not a contract without both participating. Yes man’s salvation is a contract between God and man, man will be rewarded “IF” .
Mt:10:32: Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven.
33: But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.

Pretty plain to me it is a two way street.Laymond,

One who is born from above will never deny Christ. A “make believer” will but not a “believer”.

Concerning the covenent, it is an “eternal covenent” and Christ is the strength of it. If it depended on our doing good, our worth and work, it wouldn’t last one day. But it is an eternal covenent. “It is he who is in us both to will and to do his good pleasure”. That sounds to me as if God is in control, not me.

Royce

By: laymond

laymond — Thu, 12 Mar 2009 02:24:12 +0000

Lk:13:24: Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.

“None is righteous, no, not one;
no one understands;
no one seeks for God.”

I believe this is saying, no one is righteous, because they don’t seek God.

Mt:6:33: But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.
Mt:7:7: Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:
Mt:13:45: Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a merchant man, seeking goodly pearls:

Just a few which say we are to seek. in order to find.

Laymond,

I know you have your mind made up. You refuse to accept God’s grace but want to have a bit of grace and a bit of works which is unscriptural.

These verses from Matthew have nothing to do with my post, “Saving Faith”, or about how a sinner is saved.

Matthew 6 was addressed to those who were followers of Jesus, not unbelievers.

The Matthew 7 reference was a teaching on prayer not on salvation.

In Matthew 13:45 the merchant man is God, not a sinner who is searching.

Royce

By: Dan

Dan — Thu, 12 Mar 2009 00:32:15 +0000

I do not understand how any human being can "know" exactly how this works. On the one hand "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness." as it says in Romans. On the other hand in Matthew 25:31 +, the parable of separation of the Sheep from the Goats is all about works.... "Then the righteous will answer him, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?' It sounds to me that there were surprised persons on both sides of the separation. Since we are not the ones to do the separating, then maybe it is not for us to know. What I believe is at best an opinion. No matter what I do, or how much faith I can muster, I am no better than the tax collector in Luke 18 :13"But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, 'God, have mercy on me, a sinner.' I hope for the result that was his... 14"I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted." Dan, 1 John 5:13 "I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life. 1 John 5:20-21 "20And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true; and we are in him who is true, in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life. Little children, keep yourselves from idols. 1st John is a whole book about KNOWING. The idea that we can't know is just plain wrong. Royce

By: laymond

laymond — Wed, 11 Mar 2009 20:00:00 +0000

Royce I see where what I said might be a little confusing, but lets take another avenue. Using one of your favorites.
“And without faith it is impossible to please him, for whoever would draw near to God must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who seek him.”
(Hebrews 11:6)

and the one I quoted; Mt: 9:20: And, behold, a woman, which was diseased with an issue of blood twelve years, came behind him, and touched the hem of his garment:
21: For she said within herself, If I may but touch his garment, I shall be whole.
22: But Jesus turned him about, and when he saw her, he said, Daughter, be of good comfort; thy faith hath made thee whole. And the woman was made whole from that hour.

Royce, who initiated the interaction, we have to seek him, as is said in Hebrews, he does not seek us out as individuals. We have to take the first step.

Laymond,

I don’t know where you got that idea but it was not from the Bible.

Romans 3:9-12 “9What then? Are we Jews any better off? No, not at all. For we have already charged that all, both Jews and Greeks, are under sin,as it is written:

“None is righteous, no, not one;
no one understands;
no one seeks for God.
All have turned aside; together they have become worthless;
no one does good,
not even one.”

Romans 10:20 “Then Isaiah is so bold as to say,

“I have been found by those who did not seek me;
I have shown myself to those who did not ask for me.”

Acts 11:18 “When they heard these things they fell silent. And they glorified God, saying, “Then to the Gentiles also God has granted repentance that leads to life.”

These are only a few verses that teach the exact opposite of what you are saying. Sinners are not looking for God, He is looking for them. Should I mention God’s calling, choosing, and drawing sinners to himself?

I don’t know what anyone’s motive would be for trying to make sinful man more than he is without Christ, a dreadful, wicked sinner. That is God’s definition not mine. Was it God who took the first step or Saul of Tarsus? Over and over in the Bible the story of God seeking out sinners is clear and not hard to miss.

If a man is saved God saved him. It is just that plain.

Royce

By: Jerry Starling

Jerry Starling — Tue, 10 Mar 2009 11:02:37 +0000

An excellent blog!

“I know whom I have believed and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him.”

The same three elements of faith are present here: 1) Intellectual – “I know whom….” 2) Emotional – “I am persuaded that he is able.” 3) Volitional – “I have committed unto him.”

Thank you for this insight.

By: Dell Kimberly

Dell Kimberly — Mon, 09 Mar 2009 21:05:01 +0000

Without faith that commits to Christ there is no salvation. Deep seated committment brought as a result of faith brings salvation. The pledge of my life to Christ will always result in my seeking after the Lord. Salvation is more than a formula. Salvation comes as a result of deep seated faith in Christ.

By: Darin

Darin — Mon, 09 Mar 2009 17:06:05 +0000

That is a hard one. You know what happens. In my experience it goes something like this.

“Are you saying you don’t have to do anything?”

“Of course not, if you really believe and have faith you will do something.”

“Oh, well then we agree….”

They never seem to understand that there is a difference between “doing something because of what has been done for you ” and “doing something to get something.”

When they hear you say you do something they stop listening. There is a big difference between the response of faith and the attempt to receive. If only it was understood.

I pray that your explanation help those who don’t understand this.